Today I pose a deep theological question, which, inexplicably, is also practical. Who would have thought eh?
Anyway, before I get to the question, I'm going to outline two points. Feel free to disagree with them both, but this is where I'm coming from.
When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don't even eat with such people. It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you." (1 Cor 5: 9-13)
Now theoretically this is all good. Christians can and should remove someone who is evil from their fellowship. Don't worry about the heathen's sins because God will judge that. But practically, evangelism happens on the fringe of the church. People become Christians generally after coming to church a few times. The average time it takes someone to become a Christian, in which they exist on the fringe of the church, is four years. So what do we do when they sin, do we say 'hey, you aren't a real church member as you aren't a Christian' and therefore let them do what they want, or do we say 'hey you're in the church, therefore you fall under the standards of the church, so give up your sinnning'.
The problem isn't helped by the fact that becoming a Christian and becoming part of a church (and baptism) is inextricably tied up in the New Testament.
I'm currently going with the thinking that unless they profess faith, they can do what they want, but this only works if the local church they are attending makes it clear that while they are part of the church they cannot genuinely partake in church until they believe in Christ. This should happen naturally if the focus of the church is on the building up of other Christians, as it biblically should be.
Here I'll leave it, and avoid the obvious dig at seeker sensative churches (but it's there if anyone wants to take it).
(8) Goodnight - Easyworld :'(
(t) Ellie ('I take it back, Easyworld are awesome.' 'yeah, they split up on Monday.' 'oh')
I think in the context of one corinthians it's ongoing, unrepetant sin and it is damaging the entire congregation. It's no longer something personal.
I would say that if someone claims to be a Christian yet continues to sin (even after being approached about it) that is the situation being talked about. So, if I, claiming to be a Christian, went out, got drunk and assaulted people playing pool at the local pub on a regular basis and did nothing to try and stop, that'd probably indicate that I wasn't really a Christian (as Christians we should be convicted of our own guilt, surely?) and should then be kicked out of the church community. Or something. Do you see where I'm coming from?
...and I think I may have missed the point. Trust me to comment having forgotten what the point was.
was there actually a question in there anywhere? the only one i could find was :
"Who would have thought eh?"
There's a missing question mark somewhere. But y'know, waffly questions are good. Or so I reckon.
Apparently church membership is the answer. All you need to do is to walk into an independent Baptist church and talk to the pastor/one of the elders. They'll tell you all you need to know...
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Wood
I think that it's the kind of question which has a different appropriate answer on a case-by-case basis. Hopefully, we'll know what the right thing to do is. And bear in mind that you might not know what's going on with them. They might be career burglars. Or be mnean to asylum seekers. Or tories (or is that the same thing?)
But you might never know. And besides, at which point does a sinner become beyond the pale anyway? we're all sinners (well, unless you believe in Wesley's doctrine of Christian Perfection). At which point does a sin become an ejecting offence? If you're not careful, the last person you eject is yourself and you've got an empty building.
Personally, if I was running a church, and if I had, for example, someone who was racist or who refused to accept the right of, say a refugee, to a place in the community, and they refused to listen to the Biblical injunctions that condemned these things on more than one occasion, they'd be out on their ear. But when is it ever that simple?