I have a question. In anyone's readings of the bible can anyone find a single reference to Christians having meetings to evangelise? Because I can find things about Christians meeting together to share things, to teach each other from the bible, to help each other live out Christian lives, to eat together, to take part in communion, to sing songs (to an extent), to pray, to look forward to the coming of Christ and probably a bunch of other things I forget (like drink squash) but I can't find things about Christians having meetings for the purpose of bringing non-Christians along to so that they might hear the Gospel and be saved. Obviously, and I mean that this should be really really obvious, I don't have issue with the Gospel being told to people. I'm hard pressed to think of something I'm more in favour of than the good news of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ being told to every single person, but that's not the only thing that Christians are called to do. So it bugs me that Church meetings feel they have to be evangelistic and all 'seeker sensitive'. Why can't they be slightly more 'finder sensitive'?
I heard of some church the other day that has this as it's mission statement: "To be a church for all people". As someone I know said, "what, even the atheists?". If we're serious about church and recognise that it's something more than just people meeting together physically in the here and now, that it's an eternal thing, the bride of Christ and all, then surely church is not for all. "Church is the only organisation that exists for sake of it's non-members". RUBBISH! If church only exists for one group of people then it exists for the body of Christ. THAT'S NOT EVERYONE!
I'm happy to admit that I'm wrong on this subject (where happy == long term happiness, where I'll look back when I'm 40 and say "phew, isn't that a relief that I sorted that out when I did and go over that issue"). If someone could show me in the bible somewhere that the meetings of the church, or the meetings of Jesus' disciples, or the meetings of the nation of Israel where for the purpose of evangelism then I'd be grateful. I'd be able to sit through a lot of meetings with a lot less issues. I'd like to say I'm not specifically talking about my church here, I visit a lot of churches as part of my job and lots of them want evangelisticy type youth services. What's wrong with the current youth that you have, Eh?
Michael Spencer has something related on the subject
(8) Take Me Out - Biffy Clyro
Nerd. Did you know Jesus had a wife but the church covered it up! Its all trueee
I have heard (but can't find a reference) that one of the features of Israel's temple worship was that outsiders would see what was happening, and would want to know more. But that's outsiders seeing normal temple worship, not "seeker sensitive" sacrifices.
Good point. If the youth in the curch (actually make that the whole church) were taught more about how to get a biblical perspective on where God's placed them in life and how to be able to share the gospel themselves (rather than just being bale to invite them to evangelistic meetings), then we all might be better off.
Seb, MAN OF AMAZING FACTS! Where facts == stuff that was made up down the pub. Where do you get your information from?
Will think about other stuff and reply later.
A good point but try this from your uncharismatic father:
"22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!" "
Answers please......
The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 (electronic ed.) (1 Co 14:22). Grand Rapids: Zondervan.
Seb's been at The Da Vinci Code but can't have watched the program a couple of weeks ago where Tony Robinson stuck the boot in on the whole thing including the "Jesus was married to Mary Magdeline" bit.
I taped the program but never got around to watching it. Cracking Book though!!
The book was an alright read. Factually rubbish, but an alright read.
Yes but you have a biased view because it means the end of days for you 'christians'
...or it would if it had any historical basis whatsoever. There's more historical evidence that Jesus came back from the dead than that he was married.
Your just jealous he had a girlfriend.
That's the most humorous response I've heard from you all week :)
Seb, if you really are going to insist that Jesus had a girlfriend you should really try to back it up with some evidence not found in a work of fiction. You might find that hard, but if you want to make the argument you gotta base it in some sort of factual basis.
On the other note, I think Paul is saying (among other things) 'Be aware of other people who may think you're crazy', he's not saying 'Hey kids, base your service around seekerd' he's saying 'As people who don't believe will turn up at your meetings, try not to scare them off by speaking in tongues'. If you look at the verse you see that they carry on prophesying (speaking the word of God) regardless of an unbeliever and because they are speaking the word God the unbeliever will realise what it's all about and then worship God.
It's kinda like being seeker sensitive without actually being all hip and cool and having doughnuts.
Im using the book to back me up. and the books its recommends. Besides where's the evidence Jesus was gods son? Ehh. There is probably just about as much evidence for Mary being his wife as there is anything else written in that 'bible'
Look, the book isn't up to any degree of real factual accuracy. If you look up the wikipedia entry for it then their is a whole list of criticisms of it. And that's a quite objective website.
Yeah cause it undermines the whole christian religion. People are bound to be outraged! They wont even look twice at the probability of it being true because everything they beleive in would no longer make sense...which gives reason why the church might cover it up in the first instant. I believe Jesus was a hero and dont see why he wouldnt fall in love and marry! After he all he did have lovely long hair and a cool beard.
So just because the book "undermines Christianity" that makes it true? Good logic...
Oh and Mark, I trackback pinged this entry but it hasn't shown up. Any idea why?
Thats the reason why you argue you bender.
Anways after watching that program on Ch4 it turned out most of the claims were false. Very Sad. Ahhh well back to my Montaulk Point theory.....
hahahahahaah that girlfriend comment was genius!!! :D
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Paul went to secular meetings to evangelise (cf. Acts 17). But I agree to an extent - seeker sensitive churches seem to me to either be going about things the wrong way, or placing a lot of emphasis on the cell church model effectively without us knowing how effective it is. That make sense?
Christians are called to evangelise, and that could well take the form of events. I don't think you're disagreeing with this, but more about the type of events going on. On which points, I'd generally agree with you. Church services should always be seeker-sensitive, in that we carry on as we always do and it's the Gospel that wins lives. Of course, putting people off with signs and wonders that are more crazy than supernatural is therefore not seeker-sensitive (which is odd, as it's usually the churches with the charismatic leanings that do the whole seeker-sensitive thing big time.
Any chance you could make the comments field slightly bigger, or give a JS option? :)