So after much internal wrestling I've decided on the topic of my dissertation. I was going to investigate the relationship between Church and Mission but then my stomach started laying smackdown on my kidneys (internal wrestling! I'm so funny it hurts), so instead I've decided that I am going to work towards developing a biblical systematic doctrine of dating. I'm fairly sure this is the right idea, because I had it in the shower and can still remember it. All ideas i have in the shower are fantastic and only don't get mentioned more often because I invariably forget them (as opposed to ideas you have in the pub, which are fantastic until you try to explain them to the internet the next day, then they spontaneously become dreadful ideas that you are ashamed to ever have thought of). To have an idea in the shower and remember it is therefore a sure sign I'm onto something good. That and it's a big contentious issue that there seems to be no consensus on yet people care very highly about. Granted there are books written on the subject, granted there are a lot of books written on the subject, but so far they all seem to primarily come from sociological or cultural perspective. I propose to do my dissertation based upon the assumption that the bible has something to say on the subject of dating even if it never says it explicitly. I have no idea what my conclusions will be yet and this I consider a bonus, presuppositions being bad and all.
One of the reasons I'm telling you all this is that I have no idea where to start. I'm currently doing reading of various books around the topic but have yet to come across any that really excite me. As well as that I'm compiling a list of questions that Christians often have about dating which herein follows.
Right now I'd appreciate the Christian segment of you people reading this to help me with three things. First of all, have you ever read or heard anything decent on dating? Ever read or heard anything controversial on dating? If so tell me what and where. Second, what are your questions about dating? Have I missed any out that you want an answer for? Third, what are your personal beliefs on dating? Any wonderful insights?
I apologise for the Christian orientatedness of this post. If you're not a Christian and are feeling marginalised then feel free to comment about all the excitement Christians are missing out on by being so chaste / frigid. Well maybe not about all of it but feel free to really rub it in. Also please feel free to include the phrase "You don't know what you're missing" in your comments.
*Gareth voiced this question and I feel obliged to credit him as it's a damn good question. The way some people talk about it, unless you're sure that the girl you fancy is the girl you're going to marry you shouldn't even dream of asking them out. IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION: If you know you're going to marry the girl you fancy before you ever go on a date with her YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES. "But God told me we were going to marry" is not acceptable, by anyone, anywhere.
(8) Disarm - The Smashing Pumpkins
(t) Dad
I would make a really serious, insightful and intelligence but anyone who knows me just knows that won't happen.
Mark, i'm sure i'll say something on the subject down the pub.
BULLET POINT (feel i have to put that in there to fit in!)
See....i cant even type!!
I did say
"I would make a really serious, insightful and intelligence but anyone who knows me just knows that won’t happen......"
I meant to say
"I would make a really serious, insightful and intelligenT COMMENT but anyone who knows me just knows that won’t happen......"
You can guess why people call me thick can't you!!
wow, I have so much to say on this, I'm going to email it in to avoid people having to scroll down a long long way.
Cinema tonight? Fan 4 or Charlie? about 8 ish or something? I'll text out later.
Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"?
In this book and its sequel Josh Harris basically says (if I remember correctly) that the purpose of dating (or courtship, it doesn't really matter what you call it) should be to see whether marriage is a good idea. You don't have to end up married to the person you date, but if you decide it's not a good idea then you should stop. And yes, they should definitely be a Christian.
I've read both "I kissed dating goodbye" and "boy meets girl" (which is for some reason my favourite name of a non-fiction book ever) but so long ago I forget anything but the very main jist. I need to borrow them and read them again.
I've heard from several people that this one book, "When God Writes Your Love Story" is fairly insightful.
No need for any more comments on this, I've written his entire dissertation for him :P
I've read "I kissed dating goodbye" as well... it made some good points as I remember, but for some reason a lot of people find it offensive. Usually people who date a lot, it has to be said.
On the predestined marriage topic, I don't see what's wrong with knowing you're going to marry someone before you even date them. God does tell people stuff like that sometimes. *But* I agree its probably best not to mention it to the object of your affections, at least until you're sure they feel the same way...
Benjamin: I don't suppose you'd like to email me your thoughts as well? I may not have a dissertation to write on the subject but I was debating a series of blog entries.
Mark: I *think* we've had this discussion before - not sure - but I'm firmly of the opinion that Paul (the apostle, not the iamsparticus.com commenter) says singleness is a gift, and so if you're not looking for marriage then singleness is something to be used and treasured, rather than something to get out of as quickly as possible. I'll elaborate on my blog at some point I'm sure - with Bible references to boot.
An american friend bought "I kissed dating goodbye" for my sister and she read it. From what she said it sounded like what americans mean by dating and what me and my sister meant by 'going out with someone' were subtly different things. But not having read the book myself I can't really comment!
Having read the book as a Brit, your sister's assessment was correct, but the book is not (mainly) about specifics, and is not (completely) tied to the American culture. It's pretty good on the whole "correct Christian attitude" thing, which can then be applied to your cultural situation. As far as I remember.
Prove I'm not an apostle. Go on, I dare you!
I found IKDGB a pretty good book, and there were cenrtainly elements in it to which I thought 'yeah, that's straight from the mouth of God'. There were also bits where I thought 'yeah, fair enough Josh, it works for you, but the bible says nothing on the matter'.
With the whole marriage thing, why 'date' someone if you're definitely going to marry them, and why 'date' them if you're definitely not.
How do you mean 'sexual identity'?
With the 'falling apart' bit (only 'cos I love to talk about all this, but am too tired, so will just mention a couple of things), I think if you've agreed at the start of a relationship that the aim of it is to see if you're compatible for marriage (without necessarily having to have marriage at the front of your mind all the time, of course) - then surely if you're finding it's not working while you're 'dating', then the 'dating'/'courtship' (the latter sounds more godly, I think that's the only difference) part of your relationship has done its part in finding out that you're not 'marriage compatible'. Or is 'marriage compatible' just a worldly view that's been stamped into myy brain to help me avoid the idea of true commitment. Hmm...
Heh heh, try this one out some time...
"_______, do you love me?"
"yes"
"then you will obey my commands"
~it's biblical :-P
I have not read either 'I Kissed Dating Goodbye' or 'Boy Meets Girl' but have heard a lot about them. If I'm wrong in my view then do let me know but remember I'm not very intelligent and bullying is wrong!
What it seems to me is that this guy (I'm not clever enough to know his name) seems to view marriage and the whole picking a partner thing as if its a business deal and not a love thing, where its more to do with the heart than anything else. And if I'm honest I find his view on intimacy before marriage very scary and extremely frigid.
I'm too tired to say more at this point.
And Paul, you be an Apostle and don't let anyone to you that you can't be one!!!!!! LIVE THE DREAM!!
BULLET POINT!!!
The guy who wrote those books is called Josh Harris, and I'm really not sure where people have got that impression from about his books. Incidently, he emphasises that his decision (and others' decisions) on physical intimacy are not rules, but things that some people find helpful. I personally agree with what he says - others can read his book, agree with everything else he writes except that, and he'd be cool with it (I reckon). That's not the main topic of the books though.
What Harris says is that emotions are fallible - and they are, I know that from my own experience. You can't marry someone just because you're in love with them, because it might well not work. What happens if you fall out of love? I'd have a read and see what you think. I certainly didn't find it took away the romance or the love, in fact he says that one reason for his book is to bring back more romance and love into pursuing marriage. Sort of. It's implied rather than explicitly stated.
I've also heard "When God Writes Your Love Story" is good, albeit from the pen of Josh Harris. Who is most certainly not the final authority on dating in any way - that, as Mark says in his entry, is God and the word of God.
Matthew - yes I will send you a copy of it sometime this week. It's over 1,000 words long :o
Emotions ARE fallible... I read somewhere that, a good test is if you were a robot, with no emotional attachment to the other person whatever, could you honestly say that you two are a good match? Sometimes people cling onto the first person who comes along, scared there will never be another, even though if they truely examine themselves they know that there will never be a future for them. I know this, I've been at least partially guilty of this in the past...
Apparently, (though obviously I've not experienced this myself) very few couples feel quite the way they do about each other when they marry 5, 10, 20 years on. This is when "love" as the world likes to define it stops feeling the way it did, and you really need to know you can get on with the person. Hence, it is an added bonus to know you can get on with the other person BEFORE being "in love" or wahtever you want to call it, eg both Mark & I knew our current girlfriends for about a year before they became a girlfriends. "Love at first sight" rarely holds...
I should add this to the rest of my essay shouldn't I? Heck, I should pbulish it before Mark does and get all the glory. Muahahah
Oh and Phil, I try that with my girlfriend now and then, she just gives me a stare which we both know means "yes, but only loving commands and only after/if we marry" which really is far too sensible & logical. Bad habits they are ;)
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I'll be making a serious comment on this post at some point. For now though: I kno I'm going to marry Jessica Alba.